Author Topic: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?  (Read 8244 times)

golfnutdave

Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« on: April 09, 2008, 09:55:58 AM »
I have 2 Gun Blue putters that need touch-ups on the soles.  I tried the Shooter's Solutions Gun Blue, with the results being 'less than stellar'.  The result was more of a dull grey instead of a black.  The Birchwood Casey was worthless.  I'm thinking of trying the Kleen-Bore "Black Magic". 

Anyone have any experience with cold blue products?
Any tricks for getting it nice and black while still keeping it shiny?


Joeypole

Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2008, 01:52:14 PM »
I've not had great success in any of the cold blue techniques I've tried. 

They all turn out a dull grey.  Some guys have gotten real good results but I've always gotten really frustrated and gave up.

Hopefully someone else will have a little better knowledge.

I believe in order to achieve a good Gun Blue you are gonna need heat!

Herd8497

Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2008, 02:01:06 PM »
I agree Joey.

All of my Gun Blue attempts have looked like the gunmetal finishes found on Cleveland 588/900 wedges.
It's all made in Cougar Country....Van Wert Steel

Joeypole

Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2008, 02:03:00 PM »
I agree Joey.

All of my Gun Blue attempts have looked like the gunmetal finishes found on Cleveland 588/900 wedges.

All of my Gun Blue attempts have looked like the gunmetal finishes found on Cleveland 588/900 wedges that have been used for 4 season and not cleaned!!

Azone

Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2008, 04:14:42 PM »
Is anyone using the old, traditional rust blueing process at home?  I have material from Brownells and will be trying it out next weekend (too busy this weekend).  I agree with cold blueing being a waste of time...

1-OFF GOLF

Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2008, 11:15:14 PM »
I would call Brownell's and talk to one of their experts, mention specifically what steel you are working with.

Morgan in AZ

golftech

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2008, 02:25:58 PM »
I've gotten excellent results on wedges using a gun blueing solution I picked up at Walmart (think it was Birchwood Casey).  The key for me was to completely strip first (used a stripping solvent I also got in the gun section at Walmart) and then apply about a dozen times.  I've done this several times in the heat of the summer (95+) and let each layer sit for 15-20 min in the sun baking before rinsing off and reapplying next layer.  The result was a dark blue/black finish which looked great when cleaned with oil cloth.

T.J.

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2008, 03:18:46 PM »
I've gotten excellent results on wedges using a gun blueing solution I picked up at Walmart (think it was Birchwood Casey).  The key for me was to completely strip first (used a stripping solvent I also got in the gun section at Walmart) and then apply about a dozen times.  I've done this several times in the heat of the summer (95+) and let each layer sit for 15-20 min in the sun baking before rinsing off and reapplying next layer.  The result was a dark blue/black finish which looked great when cleaned with oil cloth.

I passed a torch over a putter (carbon) until it was WARM NOT HOT, and then poured casey's gun blue over it, I got semi-good results, semi-dark blue (not like the factory of course) I did this with a full face shield and outdoors. Dooubt if I ever do it again.

For what BOS wants for a great finish, I'll let them do it.

TJ
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berkeleygiraffe

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2008, 05:06:35 PM »
general consensus among the gun crowd to product the best blue is this product from brownells
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1072&title=OXPHO-BLUE~



HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2008, 11:50:58 AM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

CourtGolf

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2008, 12:07:27 PM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
"Don't do anything well that you don't want to do again." - Bob from "Becker"

puttronics

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2008, 09:19:30 PM »
Birchwood Casey makes two different levels of bluing solution.  They have "Perma Blue" and "Super Blue".  The "Super Blue" works much better than  the "Perma Blue" but it's harder to find and costs a little more.  I found it in a local gun shop.  I've used it several times and generally have had good to excellent results.  I recently used it on an old Spalding TPM and the end result was amazing.

Make sure the putter is very, very clean.  After I remove the old finish I wash with soap and water.  Then I clean it really well with Birchwood Casey Cleaner Degreaser or just plain old denatured alcohol. 

The most important thing, I've found, for home bluing is to not leave a mirror finish on the putter before bluing.  The bluing just runs off.  It's like trying to pour it on glass.  It has to be able to soak into the metal.   I use a dremel and then polish and polish by hand until it gleams like a mirror. Then I go back over it lightly with lower grade of steel wool and just barely remove the mirror finish.  It's still super smooth but has doesn't have the mirror finish any more.  The metal can now absorb the bluing. I apply the bluing with a cotton ball and have another cotton ball ready soaked with cold water.  After applying the bluing I immediately wipe it off with the water soaked cotton ball.  I dry it with a super soft old tshirt or dry cotton ball.  I repeat until I get the level of darkness I want.  After the final coat rub very, very ,very lightly with super fine steel wool.  Sometimes a dry cotton ball will work.  It depends on the metal.  It will usually shine up beautifully.  After you get it all shined-up apply "Birchwood Casey Baricade Rust Protection" and let dry overnight. Better yet dry it with a hair dryer turned on high.  After the "Barricade" dries apply several coats of a good quality car wax.  I've had really good results using this process.

Keep in mind that it really all depends on the grade of steel or alloy used in the putter.  Some putters just won't take over the counter bluing.  The cool thing about the "Birchwood Casey Super Blue" is that it will blue nickel plated surfaces.  Depending on the alloy used they can turn out really nice.  I've had some that turn out looking kind of like a "black pearl" finish.  Good Luck!

HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 07:56:32 AM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
Most hot black oxide is heated to 285 F.  To get it to produce a blue hue, higher heat is required at around + 100 F which is not recommended by most producers of blackening chemical.  Neither of these applications is anything anyone should be trying at home.
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

CourtGolf

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 09:42:05 AM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
Most hot black oxide is heated to 285 F.  To get it to produce a blue hue, higher heat is required at around + 100 F which is not recommended by most producers of blackening chemical.  Neither of these applications is anything anyone should be trying at home.

It may not  be recommended - but even if you push it to 385 degrees, that's easily done in a home oven. (probably not the one you cook your food in - but that's not unmanagable heat.
"Don't do anything well that you don't want to do again." - Bob from "Becker"

atomic

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008, 09:45:29 AM »
I found a gunsmith not too far from my house who, if he has a load of rifle barrels to blue, would throw my putter head in for around 10 bucks.  Not much more than you'd spend on the cold gun blue.  He even buffed out bag wear on the topline for me.  Just remove any paint fill and you should be good to go.
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HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2008, 10:08:35 AM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
Most hot black oxide is heated to 285 F.  To get it to produce a blue hue, higher heat is required at around + 100 F which is not recommended by most producers of blackening chemical.  Neither of these applications is anything anyone should be trying at home.

It may not  be recommended - but even if you push it to 385 degrees, that's easily done in a home oven. (probably not the one you cook your food in - but that's not unmanagable heat.
Hot applied black oxide is a hazardous caustic chemical and is NOT something you want to be breathing.  I'm not sure you really understand what black oxide is.  The CO2 emissions from this hot process is not inteded to be breathed unless you have a death wish or something.
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

CourtGolf

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2008, 11:07:56 AM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
Most hot black oxide is heated to 285 F.  To get it to produce a blue hue, higher heat is required at around + 100 F which is not recommended by most producers of blackening chemical.  Neither of these applications is anything anyone should be trying at home.

It may not  be recommended - but even if you push it to 385 degrees, that's easily done in a home oven. (probably not the one you cook your food in - but that's not unmanagable heat.
Hot applied black oxide is a hazardous caustic chemical and is NOT something you want to be breathing.  I'm not sure you really understand what black oxide is.  The CO2 emissions from this hot process is not inteded to be breathed unless you have a death wish or something.


Hoosier - you're right - I have never played around with the process and didn't know the exact makeup of the fumes. (I do know that NO CO2 emissions are intended for human consumption - that's why we build golf courses so the plants can breath the CO2) :-)

I was just curious about the amount of heat that is required to do a good job with the blueing.  It's not a process that CAN'T be done from home - but DEFINITELY requires some serious safety precautions and breathing or venting apparatus.
"Don't do anything well that you don't want to do again." - Bob from "Becker"

HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2008, 01:33:26 PM »
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2008, 01:38:56 PM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
Most hot black oxide is heated to 285 F.  To get it to produce a blue hue, higher heat is required at around + 100 F which is not recommended by most producers of blackening chemical.  Neither of these applications is anything anyone should be trying at home.

It may not  be recommended - but even if you push it to 385 degrees, that's easily done in a home oven. (probably not the one you cook your food in - but that's not unmanagable heat.
Hot applied black oxide is a hazardous caustic chemical and is NOT something you want to be breathing.  I'm not sure you really understand what black oxide is.  The CO2 emissions from this hot process is not inteded to be breathed unless you have a death wish or something.


Hoosier - you're right - I have never played around with the process and didn't know the exact makeup of the fumes. (I do know that NO CO2 emissions are intended for human consumption - that's why we build golf courses so the plants can breath the CO2) :-)

I was just curious about the amount of heat that is required to do a good job with the blueing.  It's not a process that CAN'T be done from home - but DEFINITELY requires some serious safety precautions and breathing or venting apparatus.
Just to add, you are wrong in thinking that HOT black oxide can be done from home.  That is in-correct.  This involves chemicals that are not allowed or sold as over the counter and therefore you would have to have the proper permits to not only use, but to store.  The rules are basically about the same as what a plating company must deal with.
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2008, 01:51:34 PM »
I think the name "gun blue" is just a general term and not really a true "blue"ing of metal.  I think the only way to get a good true blue is by black oxide under high heat which is not something very many firms are willing to do.
LaMont Mann has his "acid blues" finish which has some blue hue in it that is pretty nice.  You may want to give him a try.

Just curious - can you define "high heat" ?  Are you talking about a few hundred degrees or a few thousand ?
Most hot black oxide is heated to 285 F.  To get it to produce a blue hue, higher heat is required at around + 100 F which is not recommended by most producers of blackening chemical.  Neither of these applications is anything anyone should be trying at home.

It may not  be recommended - but even if you push it to 385 degrees, that's easily done in a home oven. (probably not the one you cook your food in - but that's not unmanagable heat.
Hot applied black oxide is a hazardous caustic chemical and is NOT something you want to be breathing.  I'm not sure you really understand what black oxide is.  The CO2 emissions from this hot process is not inteded to be breathed unless you have a death wish or something.


Hoosier - you're right - I have never played around with the process and didn't know the exact makeup of the fumes. (I do know that NO CO2 emissions are intended for human consumption - that's why we build golf courses so the plants can breath the CO2) :-)

I was just curious about the amount of heat that is required to do a good job with the blueing.  It's not a process that CAN'T be done from home - but DEFINITELY requires some serious safety precautions and breathing or venting apparatus.
Just to add, you are wrong in thinking that HOT black oxide can be done from home.  That is in-correct.  This involves chemicals that are not allowed or sold as over the counter and therefore you would have to have the proper permits to not only use, but to store.  The rules are basically about the same as what a plating company must deal with.
Beside the storing of chemicals and dealing with the exhaust etc. etc., there is a lot of waste water involved.  You would need to have some way to dispose of that per your state and federal requirements.
 
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

CourtGolf

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2008, 02:37:21 PM »
Good advice !  Sounds like starting an underground putter blueing racket would be a little difficult to cover. :-)
"Don't do anything well that you don't want to do again." - Bob from "Becker"

HoosierGolfer

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2008, 02:50:42 PM »
Good advice !  Sounds like starting an underground putter blueing racket would be a little difficult to cover. :-)
Could be lots of fun no doubt, but the neighbor may think you are cooking meth or something.  You may want to make it a back woods operation like the good old days of whiskey making!
My name is Mark Connor, do not trust me.

CourtGolf

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Re: Cold Blueing...what's the best product? Best method?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2008, 03:02:38 PM »
LOL - imagine the stories NASCAR drivers would be telling now. Instead of having their roots running 'shine and avoiding the police - they'd be chasing around in golf carts talking about making secret deliveries to country clubs across the deep south.
"Don't do anything well that you don't want to do again." - Bob from "Becker"