Author Topic: D. Johnson's New Putter  (Read 2249 times)

PJ

D. Johnson's New Putter
« on: September 11, 2016, 02:35:05 PM »
Bruce,
Can you give us a similar before/after analysis for DJ like you did for Rory?  Seems like night and day.
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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2016, 02:44:37 PM »
Yes. I have a little history with this as well.
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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2016, 03:25:19 PM »
In the past Dustin used a putter better suited  for a moderate arc. But if you look at his set up he really swings the putter on an upright plane that requires less rotation. In his case he would twist the putter shut in the backswing, especially when he used a forward press. This combined with a full offset in his pold putt casued him the get stuck.

 I have a way to recommend toe hang based on posture. We use it all the time when I fit custom Byron's. After last year's Open I took some time to look at his stroke. Using that method we found he was best suited for a putter around 30 degrees of toe hang, where his Cameron was closer to 45. You would think based on his height he would have more natural rotation, but the combination of long arms and a short putter minimize the arc.

The short neck of the "day" model has about 30 degrees of toe hang. So he has a putter better suited to his arc, plus the fact that it is a Taylormade and he got a ton of encouragement to make the change, was about all he needed. He has great feel and tempo. Just needed to find a putter that matched his feel and was better balanced to his stroke.

Now the fun part for me. Last June I was asked by some TM executives what putter in there line I would use to fit Dustin. I told them no doubt I would use the Itsy Bitsy with the short neck. Reduced offset so the putter swings less shut in the backswing, less toe hang, so it is more stable on a shallow arc, no sight line to help eliminate the steer, and I think having the sweetspot more toward the middle of the putter face, helps him as well. Sweet spot on his Cameron is toward the heel, inside the sight line. Don't underestimate the elimination of the sight line.

So this is about making his stroke less reactive by finding the correct putter set up for his stroke.

P.S. I also told the TM execs that a long pipe DH89 with no sight line would be a better choice. for some reason they didn't think that would be such a good idea.

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reflog74

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2016, 03:33:16 PM »
Bruce,

How about having a pre-Ryder Cup session with the US team?

John

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2016, 04:06:19 PM »


Bruce,

How about having a pre-Ryder Cup session with the US team?

John

Dream come true.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 10:17:05 PM by reflog74 »
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cnosil

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2016, 10:29:01 PM »
But if you look at his set up he really swings the putter on an upright plane that requires less rotation.

Bruce,  can you explain what you mean by upright plane and is that common or is there a different plane that is more traditional.  Thanks.

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2016, 11:25:54 PM »
The distance from the ball defines the plane of your stroke and therefore the size of the arc in your stroke. The closer you are to the ball the more upright the plane. I have a copyrighted formula to determine the plane of a player's stroke and the with that the  "model" arc.


It is my opinion that most players do not use enough toe hang. True face balanced up right planes are very rare.


 
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 11:42:30 PM by bargolf »
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PJ

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2016, 11:32:19 PM »
So the antithesis of the DJ stroke plane would be Lexi Thompson, who likes eyes way inside the ball.  Earlier this year for some reason she was trying to use a Cure center shaft, face balanced putter.  Who advises these people?  If she could putt she'd dominate more than DJ can right now.  I think she is back to something with more rotation, but not heel shafted.  Most of the field eats her lunch on the greens.
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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 11:44:02 PM »
So the antithesis of the DJ stroke plane would be Lexi Thompson, who likes eyes way inside the ball.  Earlier this year for some reason she was trying to use a Cure center shaft, face balanced putter.  Who advises these people?  If she could putt she'd dominate more than DJ can right now.  I think she is back to something with more rotation, but not heel shafted.  Most of the field eats her lunch on the greens.

I saw her in Ann Arbor. She almost drop kicked a couple of putts. So glad to see her move to more toe hang. Still not enough in my opinion.
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Cols_Ears

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2016, 03:31:04 AM »
Great Insight yet again Bruce.

Read this article yesterday in GolfWorld that made me smile, shows that tour players are as fickle and daft as us sometimes...

"The impetus for Johnson’s switch came from playing several rounds during the FedEx Cup Playoffs with Jason Day. Watching Day make a number of putts with his red version of the club, Johnson decided to try the model out, getting one of his own. Despite putting well with it in practice, using the same red putter as Day, however, didn’t sit right with Johnson, who recalled just before his opening round at the BMW that his brother/caddie, Austin, might be able to help. “Right before we were about to tee off I’m like, ‘Don’t you have the same one in black?’ And he says, ‘Yeah,’ and I said, ‘Go get it.’ ” Johnson’s putter is 35.5 inches in length with 2.5 degrees of loft and a swing weight of E-0. As for the technology that goes into the club, Johnson could care less. “I don’t go into that stuff,” he said. “As long as it goes where I’m looking.” At Crooked Stick, it went where he was looking quite a bit."
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jt2gt

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2016, 09:42:30 PM »
no sight line to help eliminate the steer,

P.S. I also told the TM execs that a long pipe DH89 with no sight line would be a better choice. for some reason they didn't think that would be such a good idea.



Bruce...can you tell us more about eliminating the steer as you say in the above excerpt.  What is it and how does no siteline work.  What about using a line on the ball...how do you know if that works or doesn't work for some people.  Can that also force folks to overthink or steer away the "feel" of a putt.  Thanks..JT

dans4fun

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2016, 12:45:54 AM »
 :)

     Ok, Cliff here's your chance.  lol

     You must love it when we ask these questions!

     We still love your answers!

                                       Dan

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2016, 11:08:35 AM »
There are two types of player. Feel and visual.

The feel player reacts to just that. The feel of the stroke.

Visual players react to what they see.

If you have to react to what you feel or see in your stroke you will reroute or redirect the putter based on your impression.

Reactive or steer strokes are not as efficient as putting strokes based on natural motion.

Dustin Johnson had a bit of both. He tried to match the straight line on the putter to the target line he has chosen, so when the putter tried to move on it's natural arc he reacted and adjusted. That reaction was enhanced visually by the line in the cavity of his putter.

Changing putters helped eliminate both. He now has a putter better balanced to the nominal arc in his stroke and he eliminated the visual reference by taking the line away.

Over the years, when I would do  PuttLab analysis I would always include a measurement with the player's eyes closed. Well over 90% would see a totally different stroke with their eyes closed. Most often a bigger arc with much more rotation. Without a visual reference they just let the putter swing naturally. Eyes open they try to make it do something. The poorer the putter the greater the difference. The tour level players would see less difference, but still a difference and their demands are much greater. So the effect is the same at all levels.

Think about the great putting strokes of the past. How many of those players used a line on the putter?

The line on the ball is a better way to aim, but you cannot use it as a reference for putter path.

At least Cliffy gets a beer for his efforts.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 11:15:19 AM by bargolf »
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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2016, 01:20:44 PM »
Next follow up.   You imply that we all fall into one category or the other.  How can we tell if we are feel or visual players?  And how should we leverage that to be better putters?

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2016, 02:10:24 PM »
A feel player can roll a ball a specific distance without a visual reference. A visual can't come close with their eyes closed.
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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2016, 02:10:50 PM »
Most feel players are really visual.
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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2016, 02:27:28 PM »
Sorry,

True feel players are rare. Mr. Palmer and Hogan were visual player they judged their putts based on what they saw. Tom Watson was a feel player as he was one of the first to not trust his eyes and based his putts on a distance. He walked off every putt. He knew what 20 feet felt like.

I didn't mean to say it was cut and dried. Just some are more dependent on one than another. The trick is to not let vision overwhelm feel.

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2016, 02:29:00 PM »
The test.

Throw a ball on the green and with no visual target try to roll the ball a specific distance. I want to roll the ball 8 steps for example.

If you are visual this will be very difficult.
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jt2gt

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2016, 02:58:53 PM »
Also...I am really struggling with trying to figure out if using a line on the ball to line up putts really helps.  How come when I use the line I miss and then just putt to a close spot that I think is on the line, I make.  Does that mean I am a feel putter or just one visual works better for me than another.  Do you rec. one way or another to line up putts.

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2016, 03:14:40 PM »
No you need to find out. No way for any instructor to know.
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Cols_Ears

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 04:00:19 AM »
Also...I am really struggling with trying to figure out if using a line on the ball to line up putts really helps.  How come when I use the line I miss and then just putt to a close spot that I think is on the line, I make.  Does that mean I am a feel putter or just one visual works better for me than another.  Do you rec. one way or another to line up putts.

Can I ask do you check the alignment of the ball with the line (ie is it aiming where you think) before you strike it? I know some people have a problem lining the ball up with their target - I check mine by looking along the putter shaft to make sure it is aimed at my aimpoint. Once you've done this for a while you get better at it, I find I don't need to check every one anymore, but I frequently check my aiming on the practice green.

The other think to look at is the line on the ball after you've hit it. If it's rolling end over end and not wobbling (the line not the ball!) the you have stroked it where you aimed it.
So if it rolls end over end and you miss, you aimed it in the wrong place (or read the putt wrong) or hit it at the wrong pace for the break.
If it rolls crooked then you haven't aligned yourself to the line on the ball correctly - or you made a compensation in your stroke.
If it rolls crooked and goes in I would suggest that you aimed it incorrectly or misread it and you have subconsciously made a correction in your stroke.
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dans4fun

Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2016, 01:46:54 AM »

At least Cliffy gets a beer for his efforts.
[/quote]

     Bruce,

     I owe you one.  At least one!

                                    Dan

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2016, 07:42:56 AM »
Does the line roll end over end when you use it? This tells all.

You can be a feel player and use a line on the ball.
You just don't react to it during your stroke.

You can be a visual player and not use alignment aids on the ball or the putter.

The ultimate feel players are visually impaired golfers. You tell them how far the putt is, the conditions of the putt, and help them set up to the chosen line and they putt. I met a visually impaired player years ago in Latrobe who went around Latrobe's green for two days without a 3 putt.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 04:10:55 PM by bargolf »
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cnosil

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Re: D. Johnson's New Putter
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2016, 06:19:49 PM »
The test.

Throw a ball on the green and with no visual target try to roll the ball a specific distance. I want to roll the ball 8 steps for example.

If you are visual this will be very difficult.

Tried this a few tines this weekend.  I am definitely visually oriented.  Threw some balls down and tried to hit them various distances....was a miserable failure. 

However,  if I looked at a target,  I could get an idea of how hard to hit the putt.