Author Topic: eye dominance and your putter  (Read 12434 times)

invadingcanuck

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eye dominance and your putter
« on: December 05, 2007, 11:22:51 AM »
does anyone know what type of putter works for people that are either left eye dominant or right eye dominant?  I've been searching around and have seen some things on it affecting how much offset you should have, but they don't seem to be consistant.

I'd like to build my ultimate gamer in a few months that I'll stick to on the course, so I want to get this right.

golfer40

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2007, 02:34:38 PM »
from what ive read, and the converstions ive had with pros etc, i beleive that your eye dominance doesnt have anything to do with what type of putter you have...

the type of putter you have depends on your putting path... straight back straight through or the arc...

Your eye dominance depends on your set up...  I had an interesting conversation with a pro that told me if you are Right eye dominant and a right handed golfer you should have a slightly open stance, and if you are left eye dominant and RH golfer your stance should be square...

I am right eye Dominant and a RH golfer, and now set up a little open to the hole, and have found i am making more putts...

this theory could be  :poo:

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SmokePorterhouse

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2007, 04:29:48 PM »
I think there may be some merit to that theory. I am RH/Right eye dominant. I practice with an alignment tool to verify shoulders and feet are square. Yet, I have a tendency to push the putts ever so slightly. If I line up slightly open, then it's in the cup.

I have been working my ass off to line up square, so now I feel better about doing what feels natural.
from what ive read, and the converstions ive had with pros etc, i beleive that your eye dominance doesnt have anything to do with what type of putter you have...

the type of putter you have depends on your putting path... straight back straight through or the arc...

Your eye dominance depends on your set up...  I had an interesting conversation with a pro that told me if you are Right eye dominant and a right handed golfer you should have a slightly open stance, and if you are left eye dominant and RH golfer your stance should be square...

I am right eye Dominant and a RH golfer, and now set up a little open to the hole, and have found i am making more putts...

this theory could be  :poo:

JAT



invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2007, 07:23:52 PM »
so why is it that you would want to be more open at address if you were right eye dominant?

also, there is no rule for offset or no offset with eye dominance?

thanks for the thoughts

nvgolfdude

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2007, 09:04:13 PM »
I'll check my Pels Putting Bible and report back tomorrow.
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golfer40

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2007, 09:14:46 PM »
so why is it that you would want to be more open at address if you were right eye dominant?

also, there is no rule for offset or no offset with eye dominance?

thanks for the thoughts


cause eye dominance, doesnt have anything to do with the style of putter you use... its your stroke path..
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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2007, 04:50:30 PM »
I'll check my Pels Putting Bible and report back tomorrow.

did your book say anything?

nvgolfdude

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 08:07:58 PM »
I'll check my Pels Putting Bible and report back tomorrow.

did your book say anything?

I must confess to working late last night and not checking in with Pels  :((had to maintain the marriage  ;)).  I will look tonight.

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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 09:32:11 PM »
Here is something i found that roydjt said, so I thought it might be a good addition here.

"I have found that left-eye dominant putters tend to prefer a less offset putter, and tend to play the ball farther forward in the stance.  Right-eye dominant putters tend to play it farther back and prefer more offset."  -roydjt

 

nvgolfdude

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2007, 01:01:33 AM »
nvgolfdude@live.com


The Genius of Bargolf:  1.  Great putters play to their tendencies and work with them  2.  It isn't the method, it is the application of the method. Memorize the sequence of motion with clubs that fit the method.

golfer40

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2007, 08:28:05 AM »
I'll check my Pels Putting Bible and report back tomorrow.


did your book say anything?

I must confess to working late last night and not checking in with Pels  :((had to maintain the marriage  ;)).  I will look tonight.



Ok, I spent more than an hours with the Pelz Bible and found nothing on eye dominance as it relates to setup/address.  However I did find this on Mike Wier's website:

"When it comes to the fundamentals of putting, there is one key factor that cannot be overlooked. This key is eye dominance, and it determines how you should set up to the putt, either square or open, and also which grip is best for you.

If your dominant eye is your front eye, a square stance will work great for you. Conversely, if your dominant eye is your rear eye, then an open stance will probably work best in your case.

By example, Mike Weir?s right eye (front eye) is dominant, and he sets up square with a neutral grip.

Eye dominance plays a huge role in putting because if you are not using your dominant eye as you set into the putt, your targeting and feel will not be at their maximum."


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bradmcamp

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2007, 08:31:18 AM »
How do you know which eye is dominant?

invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2007, 11:05:18 AM »
thanks for the info nvgolfdude and golfer40, I may have some work to do now since i've always set up open yet I'm left eye dominant.  If I set up someplace with carpet that has a straight line on it, if I line up square with my body i feel like i'm aiming way to the right of the line.

bradmcamp, look off in the distance and make both hands to that the are "L"'s facing eachother (your right hand makes a backword L).  Put them over eachother until you have a tiny hole to look through, and put that hole at arms length so that you can see something off in the distance while looking through the hole.  Bring your hands towards your head while still seeing your target in the hole.  The eye that the hole ends up going to is your dominant eye.

apprenti23

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2007, 11:07:03 AM »
ha... all rubbish... you must really NOT be a good putter to have to worry what putters to use based on your eye-dominance... my $0.02

invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2007, 11:14:57 AM »
ha... all rubbish... you must really NOT be a good putter to have to worry what putters to use based on your eye-dominance... my $0.02

i guess then mike weir, tiger woods, nicklaus and annika sorenstam are all bad putters because they care about eye dominance???

nvgolfdude

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2007, 11:21:27 AM »
I'll check my Pels Putting Bible and report back tomorrow.


did your book say anything?
[/quote]

I must confess to working late last night and not checking in with Pels  :((had to maintain the marriage  ;)).  I will look tonight.


[/quote]

Ok, I spent more than an hour with the Pelz Bible and found nothing on eye dominance as it relates to setup/address.  However I did find this on Mike Wier's website:

"When it comes to the fundamentals of putting, there is one key factor that cannot be overlooked. This key is eye dominance, and it determines how you should set up to the putt, either square or open, and also which grip is best for you.

If your dominant eye is your front eye, a square stance will work great for you. Conversely, if your dominant eye is your rear eye, then an open stance will probably work best in your case.

By example, Mike Weir's right eye (front eye) is dominant, and he sets up square with a neutral grip.

Eye dominance plays a huge role in putting because if you are not using your dominant eye as you set into the putt, your targeting and feel will not be at their maximum."

[/quote]

love it when im right! :)
[/quote]

Well I'm glad we could make you feel good about yourself...  :P
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bradmcamp

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2007, 11:43:43 AM »
Thanks invadingcanuck

That worked exactly as you described.  I thought I was right eye dominant, just didn't know how to confirm.

I guess I should use a little bit of an open stance.

How far open do they mean, are we talking 10 degrees, 35 degrees or whatever feels comfortable?

apprenti23

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2007, 11:57:15 AM »
ha... all rubbish... you must really NOT be a good putter to have to worry what putters to use based on your eye-dominance... my $0.02
i guess then mike weir, tiger woods, nicklaus and annika sorenstam are all bad putters because they care about eye dominance???
Do you think they picked out the putters they use because they fit their eye-dominance??? I think NOT!

invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2007, 01:03:49 PM »
Thanks invadingcanuck

That worked exactly as you described.  I thought I was right eye dominant, just didn't know how to confirm.

I guess I should use a little bit of an open stance.

How far open do they mean, are we talking 10 degrees, 35 degrees or whatever feels comfortable?


I'm not really sure.  I doubt it would be much.  I'm still trying to understand why a right eye dominant player would have to have a more open stance.  From what i'm thinking, you would me more likely to put the ball under your dominant eye, so if you right eye dominant you would want the ball under your right eye.  Then if this is back in the stance a little (for a right handed golfer) then it is harder to close the clubface in time and might want a putter with more offset.  And just the opposite for a ball forward in your stance, there is already plenty of time in the swing for the clubhead to close so you don't need the offset.  I'm not 100% postive on this, just what i'm currently thinking.  I have a few contacts for some leaders in sports vision so i'll run it by them, but I wont be able to do that for a little while, likely by mid january.  I'll post back here later when i can talk to them.  Obviously, the best thing would be for everyone to use a swing and set up that feels most comfortable.  I may be using the wrong stance for my eye dominance, likely because I began golfing with a standard anser style putter and I learned my swing based on what worked with that.   I'll likely take this all into consideration though when choosing a new putter.

thanks for all the replies!

nvgolfdude

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2007, 01:11:57 PM »
ha... all rubbish... you must really NOT be a good putter to have to worry what putters to use based on your eye-dominance... my $0.02
i guess then mike weir, tiger woods, nicklaus and annika sorenstam are all bad putters because they care about eye dominance???
Do you think they picked out the putters they use because they fit their eye-dominance??? I think NOT!

Apprenti23, what qualifies you as an expert?  Moreover, what is with your need to be a jerk?  You're welcome to your opinions, but there's no reason to be malevolent in sharing them with us.
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cdnputter

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2007, 01:35:08 PM »
bradmcamp, look off in the distance and make both hands to that the are "L"'s facing eachother (your right hand makes a backword L).  Put them over eachother until you have a tiny hole to look through, and put that hole at arms length so that you can see something off in the distance while looking through the hole.  Bring your hands towards your head while still seeing your target in the hole.  The eye that the hole ends up going to is your dominant eye.

Hi,  could you clarify how far apart your index fingers are when you make the 2 "L"'s?  I tried what you suggested and looks like my hands were moving to my left eye, but I have a sneaky suspicion that I'm doing something wrong.  :o

apprenti23

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2007, 02:23:57 PM »
Apprenti23, what qualifies you as an expert?  Moreover, what is with your need to be a jerk?  You're welcome to your opinions, but there's no reason to be malevolent in sharing them with us.
Never claimed to be an expert on anything. So... yea. Back to topic... I asked a simple ? as if you thought Tiger and Nicklaus and Sorenstam really picked out the putters they use because those putters fit their "eye-dominance" because I think that was someones point as they were people who "care" about eye-dominance... I'm still waiting for an answer... Not trying to be "malevolent" I just like to use CAPS and multiple question marks and exclamation points. If you knew me as a person then you'd understand why I type the way I do, but the CAPS and stuff are just my way of expressing my opinion (which is why we are all on here in the first place) through the keyboard.

nvgolfdude

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2007, 02:53:49 PM »
Never claimed to be an expert on anything. So... yea. Back to topic... I asked a simple ? as if you thought Tiger and Nicklaus and Sorenstam really picked out the putters they use because those putters fit their "eye-dominance" because I think that was someones point as they were people who "care" about eye-dominance... I'm still waiting for an answer... Not trying to be "malevolent" I just like to use CAPS and multiple question marks and exclamation points. If you knew me as a person then you'd understand why I type the way I do, but the CAPS and stuff are just my way of expressing my opinion (which is why we are all on here in the first place) through the keyboard.

You're not waiting for an answer, you answered your own question.  Further, your responses throughout this thread have been derisive, which is why you were ignored, which is what I should probably do...

You are correct regarding Nicklaus.  I recall no reference in his books or Jack Grout's books (prior to Nicklaus going to Pelz in the early 80's) to eye dominance as a determinant for the putter selected.  As for more contemporary players such as Sorenstem and Woods, I am not aware of what factors went into their putter selections.  If you have referential information, please do share it with us so that we can have the "rubbish" removed from our thinking and questions.

I think that most of us can agree that the study of the game has become much more technical and detailed in recent years.  The study movement using sensors, lasers, and digital photography have given us new insights and knowledge.  Moreover, these tools are being made available to the average player with the advent of studios such as at HotStix, Studio B, and others.  Factors that were not previously considered in the process of club fitting and selection are being considered now because we have more and better information.

IMO the question that was originally asked was a valid one, and may in fact be a consideration in selecting the best putter for the individual, or it may not.  Personally, I would tend to think that eye dominance has more of an impact on alignment, stance, and ball position than on selecting a putter, but at least I know that I don't know enough to rule out as a determining factor.
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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2007, 01:08:54 AM »

invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2007, 01:12:15 AM »
bradmcamp, look off in the distance and make both hands to that the are "L"'s facing eachother (your right hand makes a backword L).  Put them over eachother until you have a tiny hole to look through, and put that hole at arms length so that you can see something off in the distance while looking through the hole.  Bring your hands towards your head while still seeing your target in the hole.  The eye that the hole ends up going to is your dominant eye.

Hi,  could you clarify how far apart your index fingers are when you make the 2 "L"'s?  I tried what you suggested and looks like my hands were moving to my left eye, but I have a sneaky suspicion that I'm doing something wrong.  :o

the smaller the hole the better.  I've heard some people use a toilet paper roll and look through it at the ball as if they were standing over a put.  Hold the roll at arms length and if you can close your right eye and the ball stays in the roll then you are left eye dominant.   Let me know if this helps.

golfer40

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2007, 07:47:13 AM »
geez...this got serious... :popcorn: :popcorn:
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cdnputter

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2007, 12:03:04 PM »
the smaller the hole the better.  I've heard some people use a toilet paper roll and look through it at the ball as if they were standing over a put.  Hold the roll at arms length and if you can close your right eye and the ball stays in the roll then you are left eye dominant.   Let me know if this helps.

Thank you, very good description, confirms I'm Left eye dominant.  Opposite of what I expected!    ;D


geez...this got serious... :popcorn: :popcorn:
  I think you and I have been on another forum recently where things have gotten just as serious!   ;)

golfer40

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2007, 11:11:51 PM »
the smaller the hole the better.  I've heard some people use a toilet paper roll and look through it at the ball as if they were standing over a put.  Hold the roll at arms length and if you can close your right eye and the ball stays in the roll then you are left eye dominant.   Let me know if this helps.

Thank you, very good description, confirms I'm Left eye dominant.  Opposite of what I expected!    ;D


geez...this got serious... :popcorn: :popcorn:
  I think you and I have been on another forum recently where things have gotten just as serious!   ;)

i think you need to reread the thread as to who is getting serious...

JAT!!!
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bargolf

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2007, 12:28:38 PM »
Your eyes are more likely to interfere with your stroke than help. there is a definite tendancy for players to position their dominate eye over the ball. So for the right handed golfer the ball is farther back for righteye and further forward for lefteye. When you relate eye dominance to most fequent miss you hear righteye push and lefteye pull. Bad ball position caused the miss not the dominate eye.

 Changing your stance to accomodate a visual that might not be very accurate is dangerous. Tiger is as square to the ball as anyone, what is his dominate eye? Asking here as I don't know.
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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2007, 12:56:02 PM »
Apologies, but I wanted to make one more comment. I think everyone choses a putter based on appearance. Especially tour players. whether the look they prefer is created by the dominate eye I have no idea.

Jack Nicklaus was as straight back and straight through as any player in history especially on short putts yet he used a heel shafted putter offset. He also used a center shafted bulleye. He also used an Anser style big and normal. Whatever looked good at the time.
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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2007, 02:22:06 PM »
Your eyes are more likely to interfere with your stroke than help. there is a definite tendancy for players to position their dominate eye over the ball. So for the right handed golfer the ball is farther back for righteye and further forward for lefteye. When you relate eye dominance to most fequent miss you hear righteye push and lefteye pull. Bad ball position caused the miss not the dominate eye.

 Changing your stance to accomodate a visual that might not be very accurate is dangerous. Tiger is as square to the ball as anyone, what is his dominate eye? Asking here as I don't know.

I agree, from what I hear players feel more comfortable positioning the ball under their dominant eye.  As far as Tiger, he's left eye dominant, and he likes to place the ball just to the right of his left eye.  This lets him get a good sight line as he always wants the ball to be infront of his eyes so that he can see the line to the hole.  Maybe this is why a lot of players say that it is to their advantage that their dominant eye is closer to the hole.  And yes, I do believe he is fairly square to the hole.  I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "changing your stance to accomodate a visual that might not be very accurate is dangerous".  What isn't accurate?  If you mean that for a player who is putting well to change his set up and stroke because he realizes his set up doesn't match his eye dominance, then I agree.  I would think that years of practicing a certain way would cement that swing in.  (For example, I was born left handed, but after a few years I switched and became right handed.  I can throw a ball much better now with my right hand, so switching back to my natural tendancies to be left handed likely wouldn't help my pitch (-:  )  That was an exagerated example, because by no means when putting are you only using one eye, but it helps to illustrate the point.  If more research was done in this area, maybe it could help out the golfers that have a poor putting stroke or alignment problems.  An obvious idea would be if we could start kids who are just begining the game with the stroke and putter that fits their visual system, it would increase their potential in the game.  Again, I'd like to see more research on this first.  Thanks for your remarks!

cdnputter

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2007, 08:45:57 AM »
i think you need to reread the thread as to who is getting serious...

JAT!!!

I think you need to reread my post, I wasn't calling you out or implying that you were getting serious.  I was referring to another site that we both belong to where there are fireworks everyday.

Nice one buddy.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 08:47:49 AM by cdnputter »

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2007, 09:55:00 AM »
Your eyes are more likely to interfere with your stroke than help. there is a definite tendancy for players to position their dominate eye over the ball. So for the right handed golfer the ball is farther back for righteye and further forward for lefteye. When you relate eye dominance to most fequent miss you hear righteye push and lefteye pull. Bad ball position caused the miss not the dominate eye.

 Changing your stance to accomodate a visual that might not be very accurate is dangerous. Tiger is as square to the ball as anyone, what is his dominate eye? Asking here as I don't know.

I agree, from what I hear players feel more comfortable positioning the ball under their dominant eye.  As far as Tiger, he's left eye dominant, and he likes to place the ball just to the right of his left eye.  This lets him get a good sight line as he always wants the ball to be infront of his eyes so that he can see the line to the hole.  Maybe this is why a lot of players say that it is to their advantage that their dominant eye is closer to the hole.  And yes, I do believe he is fairly square to the hole.  I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "changing your stance to accomodate a visual that might not be very accurate is dangerous".  What isn't accurate?  If you mean that for a player who is putting well to change his set up and stroke because he realizes his set up doesn't match his eye dominance, then I agree.  I would think that years of practicing a certain way would cement that swing in.  (For example, I was born left handed, but after a few years I switched and became right handed.  I can throw a ball much better now with my right hand, so switching back to my natural tendancies to be left handed likely wouldn't help my pitch (-:  )  That was an exagerated example, because by no means when putting are you only using one eye, but it helps to illustrate the point.  If more research was done in this area, maybe it could help out the golfers that have a poor putting stroke or alignment problems.  An obvious idea would be if we could start kids who are just begining the game with the stroke and putter that fits their visual system, it would increase their potential in the game.  Again, I'd like to see more research on this first.  Thanks for your remarks!

I'll try to keep this short.

You can't overcome the fact that it is side on. I joke in my lessons that if I ever had to face a firing squad I hope they had the guns at arms length trying to judge their aim from the side. At least I would have a chance.

What if the visual from address is not as important as we think it is. Maybe our ability to "see the line" is a myth and all our work to make it better is fruitless. We see every day that the position of your head to aim is not always the best position for a consistent and repeatable stroke. In fact it rarely is.

Posture and alignment have the greatest influence on path. Any opening or closing of the "robot" requires a compensation. This is usually done with the hands and the rotation of the putter face. So often to fix you vision by moving the mechanism that moves the putter is detrimental not beneficial.

This is especially true for the "big muscle putters". I am in no way saying that a change in stance or aligment might not have helped you make a better stroke. I just don't think the reason for the improvement was because of an improved "picture"

Good aimers are very rare. What is interesting is that improved aim does not necessarily mean improved putting. The tour has a number of poor aimers who are excellent putters. Instinct overcomes the "side on" visual problem. Stan Utley is the best putter I ever saw and he has a tendency to have the putter facing left at address. Maybe we shouldn't relate face position at address to aim. Maybe aim is more psychological then visual.

Sorry about the length I really tried.:)
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bargolf

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2007, 10:09:52 AM »
"Posture and alignment have the greatest influence on path. Any opening or closing of the "robot" requires a compensation. This is usually done with the hands and the rotation of the putter face. So often to fix you vision by moving the mechanism that moves the putter is detrimental not beneficial."

That is horrible. sorry.

If I am a "big muscle" putter and I force the hands to compensate for an alignment change so I see it better, I am looking at more problems not less.
I hope that makes sense.
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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2007, 11:24:41 AM »
I can see where your coming from (no pun intended) ::)   I bet your right that the mind has large role in putting.  I can also see body position as being important too.  But what tells your mind where the ball is?  As opposed to what caddy shack will tell you, your game wont improve too much blindfolded even with the best mental game.  You mentioned that it's hard to get a good line looking sideways the way we have to during a put, and I can't agree more.  The best place to get your line is from behind the ball.  When you step up to hit the ball though, you need to know that your aiming on the line that you already picked out.  Tiger says he puts his eyes right over the ball to help with this.  Regardless of what's going on in your mind, it's your eyes that are telling your mind where you are.  Even if I let a player get a line from behind the ball, then blindfolded them and let them try to set up and put the ball where they thought the hole was, they likely wouldn't be close.  Like you said, posture and alignement are key, but what tells them where to aim?  It's what your eyes are telling them.

Also, I want to make clear that I am not telling people out their in cyberspace to go move the ball around from what they are used to because they all of a sudden find out that they are right eye dominant.  I would think moving the ball back would cause all kinds of problems that you likely know more of since your teaching the swing.  I'd like to get a study though and find a correlation of people's  strokes to their actual put, both perceived line and actual line and distance control.  If a lot of those pro's out there that seem to think the dominant eye should be the front eye are correct, maybe some people who are right handed and right eye dominant would do better standing on the other side of the ball while putting.  Again, not telling people to do this, but it would be an interesting study.  (I know you didnt say any of this last stuff, but I just thought I'd throw it in so that people don't go changing their swing because a guy on cyberspace was bouncing ideas around  ;D  )

That was way too much typing before my second cup of coffee  :yawn:  :yawn:  :yawn:


invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2007, 11:26:52 AM »
"Posture and alignment have the greatest influence on path. Any opening or closing of the "robot" requires a compensation. This is usually done with the hands and the rotation of the putter face. So often to fix you vision by moving the mechanism that moves the putter is detrimental not beneficial."

That is horrible. sorry.

If I am a "big muscle" putter and I force the hands to compensate for an alignment change so I see it better, I am looking at more problems not less.
I hope that makes sense.

sorry I forgot to mention this.  I hope I didn't imply some place that you should make any kind of change in your swing with your hands to compensate for anything.  I'm not saying to change your swing at all.

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2007, 11:49:58 AM »
Invading,

We think there are two types of aimers. Visual and instinctive.

Have you ever hit a breaking putt at the hole instead of the intended line. Instinct took over.

Do you prefer alignment aids or plain view when looking down at the putter.

Do the lines on the putter confuse you or help?

I believe Tiger is visual as once he lines up the ball to his line he doesn't look at the hole much beyond tha. He is going to hit that putt where ever the line is pointed. Tiger's eyes are not directly over the ball when he putts. I have many pictures that show they are inside the ball. Again the line on the Ball is King for him so as long as the dot matches the line on the ball visually he is happy.


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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2007, 12:11:18 PM »
Invading,

We think there are two types of aimers. Visual and instinctive.

Have you ever hit a breaking putt at the hole instead of the intended line. Instinct took over.

Do you prefer alignment aids or plain view when looking down at the putter.

Do the lines on the putter confuse you or help?

I believe Tiger is visual as once he lines up the ball to his line he doesn't look at the hole much beyond tha. He is going to hit that putt where ever the line is pointed. Tiger's eyes are not directly over the ball when he putts. I have many pictures that show they are inside the ball. Again the line on the Ball is King for him so as long as the dot matches the line on the ball visually he is happy.




That's intesting about visual vs instinctive.  I'll point out with though, your using your eyes for both of those.  But I think what you are saying is choose a line behind the hole, set up the line on the ball to match that line, then only use that as a reference point and don't look at the hole once your set up.  The idea is to minimize the visual skills needed to make that put.  That could be a way to minimize alignment difficulties.  I've done this sometimes, when i do this though i feel much more mechanical, if I can see the line, and how the ball is going to get to the hole I seem to get a better feel for the put.  That just comes down to preference though.  But yes, that line does help.   It defintily doesn't take the place of a properly working visual system, but it helps.

As for Tiger, in his book "how I play golf" he says he likes the ball to be under his eyes.  If he errors, he rather make the mistake of being inside the ball though than outside.  I really hate making reference to how celebrity golfers do it, because by no mean is that right for eveybody. 

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2007, 01:32:06 PM »
We have seen many players that when their eyes are over the ball, their perception of the target is left of the true line. even with a visual aid like a laser line and they know it is pointed toward the hole they believe the line to be left. I think for this type of player removing the noise (Nike's words) is more helpful than trying to learn to see differently.

Obviously, alignment aids are not a prerequsite for good putting. Way too many great putters with no visual reference points at address to make that claim.

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2007, 02:36:08 PM »
Here is something i found that roydjt said, so I thought it might be a good addition here.

"I have found that left-eye dominant putters tend to prefer a less offset putter, and tend to play the ball farther forward in the stance.  Right-eye dominant putters tend to play it farther back and prefer more offset."  -roydjt

i would have to say that being a lefty that plays righty, that is an accurate statement as far as i am concerned. I play the ball a little further forward and putt best with a bulleye or similar offset putter.

 


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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2007, 02:58:17 AM »
NOw, am right eye dominant, yet I feel very confortable having the ball forward on my stance with a slightly open stance, does it mean am weird?

TJ
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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2007, 12:03:34 PM »
NOw, am right eye dominant, yet I feel very confortable having the ball forward on my stance with a slightly open stance, does it mean am weird?

TJ

that sounds fairly consistant to what nvgolfdude found.  Assuming your a right hand golfer, and if your right eye dominant, you'd prefer an open stance.  The fact that you put the ball forward in your stance might just be because you've tought yourself to do that for so many years that it's natural now.  I always thought I had a dead square stance until a week ago, now i've realized I've had an open stance which is backwards to this theory (I'm left eye dominant), but it's likely just due to the fact that I've always putted that way.  I feel it lets me see the line a bit better too.  I realized this when I first tried to use a ball with a lone on it.  I'd set up square to the line and it would feel horrible.  Then I'd try to stand just open to the line and all was good again.

So you might still be weird....... hahah jk (-:,  but your putting stroke is likely fine if it works for you.

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2007, 11:33:00 AM »
NOw, am right eye dominant, yet I feel very confortable having the ball forward on my stance with a slightly open stance, does it mean am weird?

TJ

that sounds fairly consistant to what nvgolfdude found.  Assuming your a right hand golfer, and if your right eye dominant, you'd prefer an open stance.  The fact that you put the ball forward in your stance might just be because you've tought yourself to do that for so many years that it's natural now.  I always thought I had a dead square stance until a week ago, now i've realized I've had an open stance which is backwards to this theory (I'm left eye dominant), but it's likely just due to the fact that I've always putted that way.  I feel it lets me see the line a bit better too.  I realized this when I first tried to use a ball with a lone on it.  I'd set up square to the line and it would feel horrible.  Then I'd try to stand just open to the line and all was good again.

So you might still be weird....... hahah jk (-:,  but your putting stroke is likely fine if it works for you.
I think you have summoned it all up! what ever works for you, saw some 60's golf on the golf channel last night, I could not believe how much Palmer,Player and Armor used to bend over their putts, but it but like you said, it worked for them!

TJ
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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2007, 12:45:26 PM »
Excuse me jumping in, but this discussion is one that plays out for us almost everyday.

So if you set up open to see it better, what is the path of your stroke? I'll bet you a cyber-beer the path is left and you compensate with an open face to the path. This cut across action the most frequent stroke we observe.

To see if this is your stroke, set a two by four on a parallel line to the stroke just off the toe of the putter. Take the putter back. Look at the ball not the board and take a stroke. If you hit the board obviously you are outside in.

The problem is that when you set up for a left path, work the open face compensation into your stroke, and then try to swing the putter down the line on a 5 foot putt. You hit the right lip and wonder why?

So if you use a line on the ball and set your body where you think "think" you see it best, you are always in conflict with your mechanics unless you swing the putter left on the short ones, away from the hole.

This isn't theory, We measure it everyday on PuttLab.

 
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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2007, 01:55:17 PM »
Excuse me jumping in, but this discussion is one that plays out for us almost everyday.

So if you set up open to see it better, what is the path of your stroke? I'll bet you a cyber-beer the path is left and you compensate with an open face to the path. This cut across action the most frequent stroke we observe.

To see if this is your stroke, set a two by four on a parallel line to the stroke just off the toe of the putter. Take the putter back. Look at the ball not the board and take a stroke. If you hit the board obviously you are outside in.

The problem is that when you set up for a left path, work the open face compensation into your stroke, and then try to swing the putter down the line on a 5 foot putt. You hit the right lip and wonder why?

So if you use a line on the ball and set your body where you think "think" you see it best, you are always in conflict with your mechanics unless you swing the putter left on the short ones, away from the hole.

This isn't theory, We measure it everyday on PuttLab.

 

I'm a little confused by that.  I just tried your set up with the block, and made about 20 putts and didn't hit it once.  When I say that I take an open stance I really mean that it's a very slight open stance.  I'm not positive on this, but I think i may leave the putter just slightly open, and I think my aim is just slightly to the right of my stance.  If I don't use a sight line and line it up with my eyes, I'm pretty much always aimed really well at it (from someone standing behind me taking a look).  If I use the line on the ball then I feel I have the face aimed to the left slightly even though it's pointing at the target, unless I take a slightly open stance then I feel that my eye line is matching with the line on the ball.

Does this make any sense with what you said?

invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2007, 01:57:18 PM »
NOw, am right eye dominant, yet I feel very confortable having the ball forward on my stance with a slightly open stance, does it mean am weird?

TJ

that sounds fairly consistant to what nvgolfdude found.  Assuming your a right hand golfer, and if your right eye dominant, you'd prefer an open stance.  The fact that you put the ball forward in your stance might just be because you've tought yourself to do that for so many years that it's natural now.  I always thought I had a dead square stance until a week ago, now i've realized I've had an open stance which is backwards to this theory (I'm left eye dominant), but it's likely just due to the fact that I've always putted that way.  I feel it lets me see the line a bit better too.  I realized this when I first tried to use a ball with a lone on it.  I'd set up square to the line and it would feel horrible.  Then I'd try to stand just open to the line and all was good again.

So you might still be weird....... hahah jk (-:,  but your putting stroke is likely fine if it works for you.
I think you have summoned it all up! what ever works for you, saw some 60's golf on the golf channel last night, I could not believe how much Palmer,Player and Armor used to bend over their putts, but it but like you said, it worked for them!

TJ

haha i love watching those.  I wonder how short those putters were to get that hunched over.

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2007, 03:13:22 PM »
Excuse me jumping in, but this discussion is one that plays out for us almost everyday.

So if you set up open to see it better, what is the path of your stroke? I'll bet you a cyber-beer the path is left and you compensate with an open face to the path. This cut across action the most frequent stroke we observe.

To see if this is your stroke, set a two by four on a parallel line to the stroke just off the toe of the putter. Take the putter back. Look at the ball not the board and take a stroke. If you hit the board obviously you are outside in.

The problem is that when you set up for a left path, work the open face compensation into your stroke, and then try to swing the putter down the line on a 5 foot putt. You hit the right lip and wonder why?

So if you use a line on the ball and set your body where you think "think" you see it best, you are always in conflict with your mechanics unless you swing the putter left on the short ones, away from the hole.

This isn't theory, We measure it everyday on PuttLab.

 

I'm a little confused by that.  I just tried your set up with the block, and made about 20 putts and didn't hit it once.  When I say that I take an open stance I really mean that it's a very slight open stance.  I'm not positive on this, but I think i may leave the putter just slightly open, and I think my aim is just slightly to the right of my stance.  If I don't use a sight line and line it up with my eyes, I'm pretty much always aimed really well at it (from someone standing behind me taking a look).  If I use the line on the ball then I feel I have the face aimed to the left slightly even though it's pointing at the target, unless I take a slightly open stance then I feel that my eye line is matching with the line on the ball.

Does this make any sense with what you said?

I think so, but only becasue I wrote it. :)

If you don't hit the block your stroke is truly straight to maybe a little inside. The open stance might even counter a little of an inside move with the putter.

The questions to ask your self.

Do I have a tendency to miss right on short putts?

Does my perception of path interfere with my perception of target?

Sounds like you are not one of the cases I mentioned and I would leave it alone. I do have one question.

What is it about the slightly open stance that helps you vision?
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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2007, 03:52:32 PM »
bargolf, I think sometimes I do miss short ones right, I'm not too sure though.  Sometimes if I don't watch it I put the ball too far back and push it a bit.

As far as a better view, it just feels better to me with a slight open stance.  It's easier to get both eyes seeing the target without having to crank my neck left so much.  If you close your left eye while standing over a put you'll see what I mean, you have to turn your head more.  I'm not going to say this is the best way to stand over a put, just what feels natural for me.  Maybe it even helps me not to push the ball.    I seem to putt the best when i'm not mechanical, if i can see the line of the put and the stroke feels natural.  I work on mechanics though off the course.

I've been playing around with my stroke to see it's true path.  I'm going to give a drawing a go here because I don't think I can put it into words.  Haha I can tell you now it's going to be a pretty poor effort.

ok, so it looks like I bring the club inside nicely but then as I approach the ball I make the putter try to go on the target line longer, which is a bit of a short push motion before I release the club. 

Hahah sorry for that crappy pic!  :laugh:   This is an interesting topic though

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2007, 05:25:14 PM »
Dear INV..

That is a perfect picture. we think that all strokes arc. Some more than others due to a number of factors. Your arc is tilted to the right so instead of the putter swinging around to the left of the target as it might with a square stance it swings to path more in line with the target. Imagine a putter always perpendicular to that path. A ball forward position helps square the putter. You might feel the push to prevent the ball from going left.


Personally I think there are some advantages to this type of stroke. For one thing the ball comes off the putter more agressively because of the face has to be closed to the path to hit a straight putt.

I would bet you don't use your left eye at all.

I would think the open stance helps bring the putter online. If you were sqaure with this method the putter would coniuet to the right past across the line. Nothing at all wrong with this method. You know what has to happen and you know the compensations you need. You are way ahead of the game.

Any strategy beats none at all.

Bruce Rearick
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« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 05:28:44 PM by bargolf »
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invadingcanuck

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Re: eye dominance and your putter
« Reply #49 on: December 19, 2007, 07:32:17 PM »
Dear INV..

That is a perfect picture. we think that all strokes arc. Some more than others due to a number of factors. Your arc is tilted to the right so instead of the putter swinging around to the left of the target as it might with a square stance it swings to path more in line with the target. Imagine a putter always perpendicular to that path. A ball forward position helps square the putter. You might feel the push to prevent the ball from going left.


Personally I think there are some advantages to this type of stroke. For one thing the ball comes off the putter more agressively because of the face has to be closed to the path to hit a straight putt.

I would bet you don't use your left eye at all.

I would think the open stance helps bring the putter online. If you were sqaure with this method the putter would coniuet to the right past across the line. Nothing at all wrong with this method. You know what has to happen and you know the compensations you need. You are way ahead of the game.

Any strategy beats none at all.

Bruce Rearick
United States Golf Academy

I'm glad that you think the stoke is okay.  I was worried that I wasn't releasing the club enough.  I remember years back I was reading some golf magazine that stated to bring the club straight back and straight through but I could never get that to work.  It felt completely backwards and unatural.  I think the little straight section of the swing helps to get the ball straight, I don't have to be as accurate this way and hit it in the one section of the arc that will make it go straight.  I'm considering switching to a putter that has a little more flow to it, maybe with a santa fe type neck.  For some reason I like to see the shaft go into the club, it gives me more feel than a plumers neck which makes me feel mechanical.